Personal Collection
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Top Quality Huge Almost 95% Original (Teeth 100%)15.5” Beautiful Machairodus -Largest Sabercat of All Time with 4.75” sabersTop Quality Huge Almost 95% Original (Teeth 100%) 15.5“ BEAUTIFUL MACHAIRODUS SABER-TOOTH CAT SKULL w Huge 4.75” Sabers Yes 4.75 inch Huge for skull Species : Machairodus giganteus Largest True Saber-tooth Cat Ever Species description : Largest Saber-tooth Cat of all time (Bigger than Smilodon ) with male members reaching 17-18” long and over 1 ½ times the size of a Bengal Tiger. They hunted in groups, and were the most powerful killer of all time with large heads and 5 inch sabers from Europe , Africa and Asia or then Eurasia. Geographical Area: 15-2 MYA Miocene –Pliocene Item location: EUROASIA Item description & rating: 1-10 9.8 w Rare Top Premium Unbelievable Size at 15.5 x 8” & Highest Quality SABER-TOOTH Cat Called Asian Smilodon. The sabers are wide and an amazing 4.75 inches long which is 3/4 inch larger than almost all of them. What is special it has only a little rest on one lower side and a little on back of skull, and a little on zygos. Many times these have resto for a large section on back of lowers but not this one. It’s a highly desirable saber cat with huge sabers and high quality and nice shaped cat. I only get the best I can, and these are so hard to find anymore. I’ve sold many and this is in top 10%. The teeth are all original(100%) to this cat with sabers just magnificent quality. So quality , size, color and shape are just amazing and consider this excellent. This has been in USA for 35 years waiting to be prepped- found by a farmer about the same time. It was acquired by someone else from a person here in USA and recently prepped. The bone is super alternating color with beige throughout. It was done by the best prepper in the world as I always do . Pictures do not do this cat justice at all. This piece will be displayed at many events for true appreciation. If you want to talk about it please call 706-235-2694. Available for museums. Great ones are so hard to get anymore. What’s great is it’s the same price one went for 5 years ago since it was purchased cheaper . NO one can get these now anymore, and if I can get one more that’s it for me. All have been prepped as I know everyone , and sellers cant buy them that way . They would cost more than this one. At auctions these used to go w going over 50,000 and that was 20 years ago . None have come into country in 15-20 years so here is one of the early ones that came in in the 80"s.
Price : $32,999 no discounts too rare Call 706-235-2694 or 706-802-7894 Paid only wire or check. Can also buy on layaway for 6 months at 20% down and monthly payments
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Rarest-of-Rare Extinct 99% Original 13.5” CAVE HYENA SKULL from Rare Location(RAREST- of- RARE EXTINCT Perfect 100% Original 13.5” CAVE HYENA Skull from Rarest of Locations Species: Crocuta crocuta spelaea Species description: These hyenas were known as the Ice Age Spotted Hyena and was a subspecies the second largest Hyenas of all time and was a carnivore who stalked and killed animals in packs it was about 6 ft long and looked similar to a modern hyena except much bigger including the head was much wider and different shaped possessing a long body and short legs. This species once ranged from Iberian Peninsula to Russia .This hyena was a highly specialized animal. These weighed over 250 lbs .They ate wild horses , steppe bison, and wooly rhinoceros that was so ruthless it could kill almost anything with its progressive and regressive features being more developed than the modern African species. Its extinction was earlier than other Ice age mammals with last one dated 11,000 years ago with most gone 14,000 years ago. This helps explain the only few specimens like this one in Middle Asia . Its extinction was due to climate change, and an inability to compete with lions and humans, and loss of grasslands which they hunted. These though did likely kill wolves which roamed with them due to being more powerful. Geological strata: Pleistocene epoch Geological period: 2 million -10,000 years old closer to first due to color Item location: Eastern Kazakhstan –largest Country in Central Asia Altai Mts in caves –only recently found Item rating and description: 1-10 10 Perfection on an extremely rare animal Cave Hyena 13.5 “ long with Super Teeth and Totally Original 99% Skull . I checked with all European dealers and only 2 ever sold a skull, and those 2were only 80%. No other dealer has even seen one. Pieces and parts but no full skulls. And what a skull. It was never broken not even zygotes. This is the Rarest find in Europe and probably the best ever found from searching all literature in history . This was cleaned off only no sealant. It does have just a few spots of restore with silly mm in palate, and one eye socket Thats it Id call that as close to perfect as you get One hole fill in an eye socket is amazing perfect . You can’t even tell in any way but Im a prepper . I have never even seen a complete skull as people in Europe and Asia have never seen . It was sitting in a cave protected from thousands of years / These caves were only recently discovered so not even Europe knows about these. So few people in the world know of these they don’t even know how to price –that’s how rare they are . All animals in this area are dark and this was lightest of all animals found but still darker reddish brown. Most animals are black from here only . The ones in Europe are light. This could be the areas of first ones due to color 500,000 years old . Darker the color the older they are. Next to Bonecrusher hyena this was one of 5 top carnivores at its time including sabercats, lions, bonecrusher hyena and this. This is perfection to top degree. IT attracted huge animals like wooly rhinos, horses, wooly mammoth etc. Its huge 13.5 inches and 9 inches wide so no compression. It comes on a sturdy stand also . Where can you get a top predator this good. It’s amazing .This specimen displays so well with 98% originality This is worth a fortune. People in Europe are different from USA –they like totally natural 100% but will take partial animals more than prepped animals but this is so good it can be owned by anyone who wants to premium bone . While nothing is perfect this will sell so fast to Europeans or Americans as it perfect. One tooth repaired. That’s it. 100 % original and so rare you will never ever see another. I’ll be getting more animals from this region including lions so be ready or these will go so fast it will make your head spin .These go for way more than I want especially from an area that never found them If no one buys this that’s fine it will stay with me as find another. It’s for someone collection who has most everything but they don’t have this. Even poor ones in Europe go for more than I’m asking Call on this one. Keep in mind only 2 dealer has even seen one in Europe and Asia until now .Only accept wires or Cashiers Check . Mounted I on beautiful display . You can find an upper or something that has lots of resto but not one like this This is for a perfectionist and probably the best skull of this rare species in the world . This is a premium skull not like a few that are missing many parts so you cant compare this to any other . Price: $Final Price Shipping: USA $229 overnite International $450 Wires only accepted no paypal so call 706-235-2694 |
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Splendid High Quality Rarest of Oligocene Sabercats 9.5” PogonodonSkull w 6 Verts w AtlasSplendid High Quality Rarest of USA Oligocene Sabercats 9.5” Pogonodon Skull w Verts& Atlas Species: Pogonodon cismontamus(Platycopis) Saber- Cat Skull 82-85% Species description: One of earliest Nimravidae endemic to North America and Eurasia .A Nimravid saber-tooth cat that roamed North America beginning in the Oligocene Period 32MYA -24MYA . They stood at least 2 ft tall with cheetah-like habits and diet , and were solidary predators hunting an abundant food supply of grazing ungulates including camels and oreodonts . Using their highly developed saber-teeth they would likely sever the blood supply in the neck of their prey in the initial attack. Their sabers are smaller than a Dinictis normally but not this specimen as shown with this specimen and estimated weight was around 70 lbs . This fossil is so rare it has little written about it . This specimen is so big the sabers are much bigger than a Dincitis(even though sabers casts), and one of rarest fossils on earth Geological strata: Uppermost Brule Formation Just below uppermost nodules in the White Zone Just at bottom of Sharps Formation Geological period: 32-24 MYA This one 32-30 MYA –Top of Layers so a later more advanced one - Item location: White River Badlands -Shannon County , S Dakota Item Rating & Details :1-10 10 To have two of the rarest of Oligocene cats -a Pogonodon Skull is so amazing when I have had 2 total in 25 years as the catman. It also has 6 neck verts including an atlas that is so appealing. The color is so great darker tan which is so unusual. This is one of most greatest finds in America in the Sabercat world. This one is darker, and just so magnificent. I’m the luckiest guy in the world. The rareness of this cat plus the high quality make this the ones Ill remember most even though I’ve had hundreds of cats over 25 years. It’s a POGONODON HIGHLY ORIGINAL SABER-TOOTH CAT that has such high actually bone quality . The molars. premolars and carnasials are all original with a few incisors. I have sold many cats but these 2 take the cake. What makes this such a great find is originality of the bone skull is an amazing 95% and these just aren’t found. All the teeth are pleasing even though some casted. On a Dinictis or Hoplo that effects value but not near as much on an animal that is huge for Oligocene cats and so rare only a few have been found. It has been IDed by a knowledgeable authority as well as myself who has been around the cat world. Keep in mind other sabercats of this timeframe are much smaller by a few inches . If you get a 60% one your excited and that has extreme value . I recently sold a Nimravus not as rare for $20 thousand and not as big by far. The prep work was fantastic as it is exceptionally done . The zygos are even real and well as almost all the upper except small section in back of worth just a little restored . The lowers are amazing even with most of back original. The color, shape and rareness is just unmatched and have only seen a few of these my entire life. I have one in my collection but this I still hate to sell but will if price is right I will WHAT A Great cat. A LIFETIME KEEPER and one of a few that exist including museums. BONE QUALITY unmatched anywhere . I have another for personal collection from a friend , and soon hope to get another . These are believed to be developed from the dinictis genus which is the smallest of the American cats but just look at this one. To get one with an atlas and 5 other neck verts attached on a display is so awesome .
Price $24,995 (Great price for a great cat that has 6 verts attached call 706-235-2694 Only paid by wire or checks Final Price " Low low 19,999 what a reduction for such a fine cat
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Amazing Find -Ultra Rare Homotherium Saber-Tooth Cat 12” Skull over 90% Original w 2 Perfect Sabers & All Teeth OriginalBeautiful ULTRA-RARE Adult HOMOTHERIUM Saber-Cat Skull 12 “Long Highly Original Species Homotherium latidens Species Description :This cat evolved from Machairodus and appeared at Miocene –Pliocene border about 5 MYA and lived in North America & Africa as well as EuroAsia and died out lastly in Asia and North America about 10,000 years ago so it was highly successful . It was a scimitar cat built like a modern lion that had about 13 “ skull but much longer teeth called sabers . It was larger than average saber-tooth cat that was very successful yet hardly ever found in fossil records. Complete Skeletons have only been found in Texas. It looks like Megantereon, however much shorter sabers and less sized lower saberguard and sabers reached to end of lower jaw as this one does. It reached 1.1 meters at shoulder. As said as compared to Megantereon, and gripping force. The skull was longer than Smilodon, and Machairodus its sabers were relatively short. It provided a great puncturing and gripping force. This jaw has turned down flanges to protect the scimitars. It has large canine teeth that were crenulated and designed for slashing rather than purely stabbing. Some of the physical appearances were unusual for a big cat as it had limbs that were hyena –like . Forelegs elongated while hind legs were rather squat with feet plantograde causing back to slope down towards a short tail similar to a lion. It had a large nasal cavity opening like a cheetah which allowed greater oxygen intake with brain visual cortex large and allowed it to hunt during the day instead of night like many cats. IT lived 5 million years longer than Megantereon . It hunted in packs and not only killed mammoths but also rhinoceros juveniles.
Geographic Time frame: possible Early Pleistocene 11-2 MYA Area EuroAsia
Item description: and rating : 1-10 . 10 X-Ultra Rare Beautiful Complete Adult Female Homotherium Scimitar Sabercat Skull 12 “ long x6" wide . It is over 90% original bones and 100% Org Teeth with Perfect Sabers and rest of teeth as crisp as anyone has seen. The sabers are magnificient-best I ever saw .The Upper is 99% Original including zygos which is rare . I have wanted a whole one for years and the opportunity was afforded from a friend who is a top expert on these creatures, and this will be admired by me and ones who read this. He had it in his collection for at least 30 years and decided to sell . I've had it in my collection for awhile also I decided to sell this but it’s a hard decision. The only resto is back of lowers which all cats have. IT has wider sabers than Megantereon and larger cat also. This is one of most complete skulls you would ever find with lowers and so rare I’ve only had a few. Only a number of them have been found in a Texas cave , and 2 in Florida and a handful in China and Europe .IT does have a dislocation due to pressure of earth on the side zygos so best to be displayed on either side . This is common for ,80% of cats. AS someone who knows a lot on cats said the species is close to Xenosmulus(rarest sabercat in world) but different Wow what a sabercat. This is the most desired sabercat in the world. Ive only had one other and I sold it years ago for 43,000 , and now worth much more . This is a deal. I'Ll gladly keep it if not sold . Great Value. I doubt if 10 of these have ever been found before
Price: $38,700 Only wires or cashiers check accepted call 706-235-2694 for details Shipping with insurance $365 overnight |
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Gorgeous Huge Rare Hyaenodon (Under creodont)12” SkullGorgeous Rare Huge Hyaenodon(Under creodont )12 “ Skull Species : Hyaenodon horridus Species description : This is the largest of the species of Hyaenodon in North America with massive high sagistal crest in back of head , long narrow snout , short neck , and long body and tail . It was the top carnivore for over 20 million years even with many sabercats running around . Called a Creodont and it hunted alone not in packs like terrible Pigs , which could drive these off due to in groups of at least 3 / These are rare . These creodonts shared a specialized dentition commonly found in meat eating animals with shearing structures called carnassial-teeth . This one is close to size of a bear and had one of highest pressure per bite about 1000 lbs which exceed almost all animals of now or past Male specimens show grinding marks on their teeth, which are big . This means they used to grind their teeth for intimidation with other animals. The last creodont went extinct about 23 million years ago but in Asia later for their species . This was only ever found in USA and is huge. Geographical strata : Scenic Member , Brule Formation ,White River Group Geographical period : Middle Oligocene 27-35 Million years ago Orellan Item location: Custer County S Dakota Private ranch with COA Item rating and description 1-10 9.7 What a vicious creature of Oligocene -The Extinct Largest Hyaenodon , and next to largest carnivore with a colorful 12 + inch skull from private landowner directly . The skull is exceptional on bot lowers and upper , with amazing teeth so natural It appears to be over 90% Anything 75-80% Oligocene is mighty fine . This is going for an amazing price for you true collectors . Its on a fantastic display of mineral on base and the tan color makes it appear so beautiful. The shape , color , and quality is exceptional . ILl let pics do the talking Price : $7779 call 706-235-2694 only wire accepted Shipping overnite for safety is $285 |
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One Of Kind - Super Rare Eusmilus US Saber-tooth Cat with SaberSpecies: Eusmilus olsontau Species description: The Nimravid saber-tooth cat (one of smaller ones)with razor –sharp sabers and after Dinictis and Hoplophoneus on geological chart which is believed to evolve from one line of hoplophoneus saber cat that roamed North America beginning in the Oligocene Period for only a few million years from 30-27.7 MYA . These animals had a lot of physical characteristics similar to Hoplophoneus Sicarius except for size , as Eusmilus was the genus for that animal until a short time ago . All these are small saber cats only 5-6 inches long with large sabers and flanges for the size which makes it look like a barbourfelis and a hoplo except for much smaller size .It had only 26 teeth compared to 44 for most saber cats and it was lacking molar 1 talonoid and premolar 2 on the bottom jaw . It was bobcat sized with lynx sized head and was built like Barbourfelis for size (Of course Barbourfelis is much larger ). Long bodied and short legged compared to others, and they ate grazing ungulates including camels and oreodonts. They could open their jaws at a 90% angle . Most of the info on internet is incorrect as below is correct . It did not live 8 million years, just over 2 and did not have a large species in America (only this small one)at least and one in Europe was bigger . Geological strata: Upper Whitneyan and Early Arikareean Age Geological Time frame: 30-27.7 MYA Item location: Pennington County , SD Item rating and description:1-10 10 Gorgeous Small Ultra Rare Eusmilus Saber-tooth Cat 5.5” . This cat is so special I still can’t hardly believe I have one. Only a few in the entire world exist with a few museums in USA and Europe , and only 2 private collections exist as known and I’m one of them . Due to a friend I was able to obtain a dream and this is one of few which actually have a saber anywhere . It has one complete side with some bone missing on top but a beautiful back , and the other side is there –just need to prep it . It has excellent bone quality, and is one of the true Eusmilus Cats . I’ve been reading about this cat for years, and by the way now that Hoplophoneus Sicarius has been reclassified no large ones exist as the web says in America . Too many awesome words can’t fully describe this cat. This may be the only one with this much of one saber These are found in rock nodules This is beyond words Its been in my collection for years This is only for cat collectors that will never have another chance to buy . The owner is so lucky Ive been so proud for years but its time for someone else This is 100% original and the one saber is only one of this species that may exist . My friend had 3 as he is top cat specialist in the world , and only person who has one known in USA besides this one . He has no sabers , and I have this one Auction value $35,000 plus 23 % premium Will be gone soon email me at paleoman@dinolandplus.com call 706-235-2694. If you buy this no one else in world will have this I know its less than ½ there but that is one of most complete found .r Price : $26,000 rarest cat in the world No one has this in the world with a true real saber Only a few exist without sabers but this has one except small area at tip |
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Amazing Very Early Neolithic Man Humerus 10”(Between Cro-magnon and Late Neolithic )from Museum w StalactitieAmazing Very Early Neolithic Man Bone Humerus 10” (Between Cro-Magnon and Neolithic )Around 5,000 -6000 BC From a Museum with Stalactites (Calcium Carbonite emissions) with Found in a Cave in France -One- of- a- Kind -Complete Left Humerus Species : Early Homo Sapiens Neolithic (12,500 -3700 Years ago ) Description- Cro-Magnon Man was in Europe 40,000 -to 10,000 and was an early Homo sapiens who lived at same time with Neanderthals from about 40,000 to 30,000 when Neanderthals died off . This homo sapiens species was between called Early Neolithic who did cave paintings Neolithic man lived from 7500-3700 years ago Time frame Dated 5,000 Years ago. Same cave Cro-Magnon Man Early Holocene but consider these early Neolithic Area Found : Stated on COA in detail Found in cave close to other Neolithic Man items well known and purchased from Original Finder’s Family who did have in museum with many bones and museum closed Formation: Franco-Cantabrian region Item rating and description : One of a Kind Neolithic bone Humerus with stalactites made up of calcium carbonite. This is a Complete Left Humerus 10 “ long Its complete. Amazing find . This is the only area in Europe these have ever been found in same cave. The calcium carbonite binding these together was formed by dropping water in the cave deposits. So this is so rare. I’ve never seen this anywhere anytime . Most are in museums and very few at that. This is priceless . Its no resto total 100 % original from a great source in Europe. I’m so happy too keep this but will offer it. You will never see this again. I saw a old skull from Africa once that was so valuable I could not afford it or would have purchased it. This is so great it makes me cry. Always had a soft spot for our lineage. These are famous prehistoric men who did art on caves and this cave is the most famous in the world. Here are some links to explain value Prehistory of France - Wikipedia and The best prehistoric sites in France (about-france.com) This comes with COA from me and all details where found when interested . One end present Other beginning of end You wont see this anywhere in private hands Price :$ 3999 Only wire accepted or check call 706-235-2694 please Shipping $ w insurance $179 overnite |
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ON HOLD
Gigantic 32” Adult WOOLY RHINOCEROS Entire Skull Highly Original(Upper 100% Original)w All TEETHGIGANTIC 32” ADULT WOOLY RHINOCEROS ENTIRE SKULL Highly Original WITH ALL Real TEETH Species: Coelodontia antiquitatis (Wooly Rhinoceros) Species description: An adult wooly rhinoceros was 14 ft in length and 12 ft high and 2 horns on the skull are made of keratin with the anterior horn larger than 3 ft long horn between its eyes. It had thick long fur, small ears , short ,thick legs and a stocky body. It used its horns to sweep away snow from vegetation so it could eat in the winter and defensive purposes. It did survive the last glaciation period unlike most all other mammals of its time as it was hardy and could withstand most anything but man
Geological strata: Pleistocene Fauna
Geological period: 1.8MYA -9,000 yrs ago
Item location: SIBERA , RUSSIA
Rating and item description : 1-10 9.5 VERY RARE HUGE 32” WOOLY RHINOCERAS Whole SKULL w /All Natural Teeth with Beautiful Brown Color. IT is very High and also 15 Inches Wide. The Upper is 100% Natural with only 1 crack fill and 2 teeth placed in perfectly to complete . This was in my personal collection so never seen before. The lower had very back articulation point repaired and reconstructed bone. The rest of lower was found whole and jaws were together. This lower matches perfect with color, size in most areas except the back of lower which was reconstructed so it is from this Rhino. I’ve only had a few of these in 25 years, and now no one will be getting any more . According to my friend in Belgium as of the first of year Russia has laws now of items leaving country which are mainly fees procured by government before leaving but no import laws here. Since this was in my collection I had no interest anyway of getting something from Russia of course . This was bought in USA as it was here for many years in my collection . This is from an old collection for decades in a warehouse, and never prepped until I did the prep. These are found only in Russia now, but used to be Poland, Belgium, Netherlands , and a number of Eastern Europe Countries, as none in Europe have been found in years due to most areas including home caves being now off limits unless private property. While this has no large horns, I do have some juvenile horns you can get very inexpensive . If it was a large horn the price would be over $50,000, so it’s a way of getting a real horn cheap as you will never have an opportunity again to get a real one -either skull or horn. I saw one with a horn in Tucson this year for $80,000 that was there for many years . Only a few ever have the smaller horn real as only a handful have ever been found. All 4 molars on each side are present. It’s a great representation of the species. The lines and attributes are fine and the top, back, and front are perfect with all bone original on the upper . The top upper in front have little projectiles called protuberances which are so detailed and not worn and many don’t have near the detail as this one. Keep in mind only Russia has these now, and you can get this one in USA as I did . I will not send this to Europe only USA . IT displays well on its molars and I’ve seen these on ebay for $20,000-$30,000 with fake horns so step up to the plate and hit a home run and buy this. It is heavy but can be carried or mailed on a skid . I see huge upside investment in this piece for any of you and hope you see it too as you won’t be seeing these ever in future . Due to color this one looks old . I can’t tell on this one if a Female or Male Online only a few exist and one at ebay with no backs of lowers is 33,000 and one at well known fossil shop is $42,000 just for the skulls so mine is dirt cheap
Price : $14,000 NO discount $11,000 Vasili.
Shipping $1200 on pallet ground or air (more funds )up to you No international sales |
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Almost NOn existent 2 Neanderthal Large Femurs (One 12”) from Area cave known for Neanderthal Finds with COA from Owner in 1978-Found 1975Almost Non-existent 2 Neanderthal Large Femurs( one 12”) From Known Area for Only Neanderthals w COA from Owner of Original finder over 50 years ago Found Almost 50 Years ago & at least 30,000 years old -Ultra Rare Amazing Early Man - Species : Homo Neanderthalensis Description- Extinct Species of humans who lived in Eurasia until about 30,000 years ago . They originated generally thought about 500,000 years ago. Society was quite sophisticated with fire making abilities , building cave hearths, and making of stone tools. They could make clothes and ate a wide variety of food mainly hoofed mammals , plants, birds and some aquatic animals. They could make use of medicinal plants and were apex predators but competed with cave bears, cave lions and hyenas , and sabercats . Time frame Dated Pleistocene est. 50,000-35,000 years ago Area Found : Cave in region of Austurias Item rating and description 10 10 : These are so rare everyone can only dream of having a piece of our history. One femur has one end that is worn 12 inches long and other has neither end . Normally these are real ,real expensive from my European contacts because only a few dozen exist in the world in private hands but here they are so reasonable These are 100% Original and not only come with COA about finders before any caves became public . These were probably found in 1975 and purchased in 1978 when it was purchased from finders in Europe. These were adult. A map where found also comes with each piece and they were found deep inside the cave. Few people ever have anything even if you want one ,and due to amount of pieces known , IM offering these very cheap. Even small pieces way smaller than this would sell for this price. This cave only Neanderthal have been found, and it’s famous. It’s was the best area for Neanderthal bones and these were found 1n 1975. All were found by paleontologists and collectors. Last chance to ever see one let alone purchase it. Neanderthal sections to my knowledge don’t exist in USA, and Europe probably a few museums but that is it. But something this rare period are amazing pieces . I had a femur with one end many years ago for 30 years and it sold for $6000 Not these. Always I have a soft spot for our lineage so able to obtain after years of trying. To my knowledge no one has this in private hands in USA and few in Europe anymore. No carbon dating has been done but is at least 35,000 years old and suspect older. In fact in 1994 13 individuals were found, and they were older and cannibalized in this same cave. IM not sure these were cannibalized or not. . This cave is extensive and people allowed in until late 1990s COA from owner about finder and location in cave provided So you get 2 for price of one . Price $5999 Close out Closeout $4999 Neanderthal is so rare its a chance of a lifetime and you will never see this again Shipping $149 w Insurance International 199 Been in personal collection for years Call 706-235-2694 Only paid by check or wire email paleoman@dinolandplus.com This is the deal of the century . IN Europe just one teeth a whole museum is built around so you understand . |